Why did Marina Salye remain silent about Putin for 10 years?

svoboda.org

20 min

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The year 2010 began with significant dates. 10 years ago, Vladimir Putin took office as President of the Russian Federation. 10 years have passed since the death of the first mayor of St. Petersburg, Anatoly Sobchak . And one more date - exactly 10 years since Marina Salye, a former people’s deputy of Russia and a deputy of the St. Petersburg City Council, moved to a remote village in the Pskov region. Since then, she has never met with journalists.

Marina Salye knew Anatoly Aleksandrovich Sobchak well, and devoted an entire investigation to the activities of Vladimir Putin in the authorities of St. Petersburg. In 1992, a special commission of the St. Petersburg City Council under the leadership of Salye came to the conclusion that according to documents signed by the chairman of the Committee on External Relations under the Mayor of St. Petersburg Vladimir Putin, as well as his deputy Alexander Anikin, rare earth metals, petroleum products and other raw materials worth more than one hundred million dollars. These were barter contracts. In return, shipments of meat, potatoes, and poultry were supposed to arrive in St. Petersburg, where there was such a shortage of food that food cards had already been introduced. But they didn’t. The report of Salye's commission was transferred to the prosecutor's office and the Control Directorate of the Presidential Administration.

However, the investigation stalled, and Vladimir Putin was not only not removed from his post, as recommended by the St. Petersburg City Council after hearing Salye’s report, but was also promoted.

In 2000, when the career of Sobchak’s former deputy reached its highest point, almost all foreign correspondents and even one Russian TV channel rushed to interview Marina Salye. At this time, Salye herself wrote articles urging people not to vote for Putin. And suddenly - after Vladimir Putin’s victory in the elections - she left for a remote village and stopped communicating with journalists.

In February 2010, Marina Evgenievna decided to make an exception for Radio Liberty .

Today Marina Salye lives in the Pskov region. She kept her archive. It includes the famous report, more than 40 appendices to it (including documents on which RS correspondents discovered three versions of Vladimir Putin’s signature; their authenticity, of course, RS correspondents did not check), correspondence between Vladimir Putin and St. Petersburg customs, correspondence between Anatoly Sobchak and Yegor Gaidar regarding the documents issued to Putin's exporters... The former deputy also keeps several folders with decisions of the St. Petersburg City Council that overturn the decisions of St. Petersburg Mayor Anatoly Sobchak.

Marina Salye (photo by Yuri Timofeev)

Marina Salie felt that she could not leave the recently released film “Anatoly Sobchak. 10 Years Later,” which included interviews with Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev , without her comment:

- Sobchak has never been a democrat. The Leningrad City Council, of course, is to blame, including myself, for putting him in the throne. But no one expected what happened next. Almost from the first meeting, he began to trample us underfoot, insulting the deputies in completely unacceptable terms, discrediting them in every possible way. And he had a lot of ways. He had the entire press in his hands, and they published him willingly. We were also published, but less often. And they weren’t allowed on television. And this discrediting of the best City Council in Russia (I was in the Moscow City Council at that time and I can say that our composition was stronger), I am convinced, led to the discrediting of the legislative branch in general. Not only in St. Petersburg, but throughout the country. And so we came to our current parliament.

Sobchak had a clear goal - to make of the Council... it is not appropriate for an elderly woman, a doctor of science to say obscene words..., but he wanted to make of the Council, excuse me, g... The conflict began immediately. “He became the master of the city,” I think President Medvedev said in the film about Sobchak. Does Medvedev even understand that there should be a separation of legislative, executive and judicial powers?

But “master of the city” is exactly what is said. This was so, he tried his best to achieve this. He sought the right to dissolve the city council and district councils. No more, no less. Didn't achieve it. Moreover, he used unacceptable methods, just outright lies.

Things got to the point that on March 30, 1992, the St. Petersburg City Council of People's Deputies decided to consider it expedient to relieve the mayor of St. Petersburg Sobchak from his post. This document was sent to Yeltsin. This is what we wrote to the president about Sobchak: the mayor of the city “stubbornly sought to remove the executive branch from the control of the representative branch.”

- Yeltsin didn’t react?

- No. Next, we take the decision of the 19th session of the City Council on April 28, 1993. The Council decided to recognize the report of the Mayor of St. Petersburg Sobchak on the activities of the administration as unsatisfactory... A lot can be said about this, but the main thing is that when he was Chairman of the Council, he was not involved in the activities of the Council. At that time, Sobchak was passionate about various kinds of presentations, trips abroad, and new costumes. And as soon as he became mayor, he already had a team around him (Putin was already there), and the looting of the city immediately began.

Both President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin credit Sobchak for returning the city to its original name. It is not true. Deputy Skobeyda introduced a draft decision to return the city to its historical name at the 7th session of the Leningrad City Council. And the 7th session made decision number 25 of April 30 - to conduct a survey.

Members of democratic parties (Free Democratic Party of Russia and others) began to act - they handed out leaflets, newspapers near the metro... They were very active. But Sobchak was silent. Finally, on the last day before the poll, he addressed the Leningraders and said: “Decide for yourself.” The city was renamed based on the results of a population survey. I categorically do not want people to credit Sobchak for renaming the city.

Another point that requires our attention is compliance with the rule of law, which Putin and Medvedev also credit

I don’t know if I can name another statesman of his rank who was so contemptuous of the law

Sobchak. Sorry, but it's exactly the opposite. I don’t know if I can name another statesman of his rank who was so contemptuous of the law. Let's start with a simple thing: here in front of me is a stack of decisions made by Sobchak and then canceled by the City Council. They concern mainly property and buildings. The legal opinions on the basis of which the Council overturned the decisions were given by none other than Dmitry Kozak. He is a very competent lawyer and helped us a lot.

I have a lot of these conclusions. For example, the famous decision on “New Holland” (a prestigious area of ​​​​St. Petersburg. - RS ). Sobchak farmed out the architectural ensemble to some unknown company. The conditions for the city were so unfavorable that the deputies gasped when they saw it. Or here is “Analysis of regulatory documents issued by the mayor and vice-mayor of St. Petersburg.” And here is a list of these orders and a conclusion about what laws they violate: on property, on local self-government, the Civil Code, the RSFSR Code of Administrative Offenses, the USSR laws on cooperation, on enterprises and business activities, etc. We sent this paper to Boris Nikolaevich Yeltsin on January 15, 1992. They didn’t send it - I gave it to him.

- The result?

- None. But regarding the fact that Sobchak “was the first to show us that we need to follow the laws” - whose cow would moo...

- Sobchak was not the only one who attracted attention then.

- When I watched the film about Sobchak on February 19, I kept thinking: when will we talk about food? When will they say that Sobchak saved the city from hunger? But this topic is closed to them, and they do not want to raise it and will not. Because they know that I will not remain silent.

It's simple... In the autumn-winter of 1991 - 1992, the city was left without food. This is neither Sobchak’s fault, nor mine, nor the chairman of the food committee, i.e. there was no executive structure. Some of the food was hidden. Well, he was not physically in the country.

After the 1991 coup, economic reforms did not begin for a very long time. The Baltic states were the first to lower prices. And then the frantic export of the remaining food from St. Petersburg began. I realized that I needed to introduce cards for leftover food. I, a siege survivor, understood what the introduction of cards meant for our city. But it was necessary. There were already a lot of coupons - for milk, meat, sausage, vodka. At the meeting of the leadership of St. Petersburg, only Alexander Nikolaevich Belyaev supported me, he was then the chairman of the financial and economic commission. He supported me, and we introduced the cards. By introducing these cards we managed to control the situation for some time.

And then I began to find out, solely through rumors, that our city had been allocated quotas for the sale of timber, metals and other goods

I began to learn, solely through rumors, that our city had been allocated quotas for the sale of timber, metals and other goods for barter in exchange for food

for barter in exchange for products. What quotas? Where are the quotas? Officially, no one knows anything. I wrote a request to Sobchak and received an answer, although not soon. A working group was created to investigate this situation.

And, to put it very briefly, it was like this: the contracts were concluded with God knows what companies. The companies were clearly shell companies, one-day companies. Licenses for the export of raw materials were issued by our St. Petersburg committee for foreign economic relations, that is, its leader Putin. They were signed either by himself (rarely) or by his deputy Anikin. They had no right to issue these licenses. And goods with these licenses went abroad. But no food arrived. And it didn’t arrive.

- How much were the raw materials sold for?

- It depends on the prices of raw materials. Another feature of these agreements was that they were very low prices. For example, the rare earth metal scandium. The experts I contacted gave one figure. Later, Vedomosti journalist Vladimir Ivanidze found out a different figure from other experts. According to them, the prices in the contract for rare earth metals were underestimated not by tens, but by hundreds of times. But Ivanidze was kicked out of Vedomosti the same hour he wrote it. He left the country... By the way, during the first calculations I missed the exported aluminum.

As for scandium, the contract specifies a price of 72.6 Deutschmarks. In reality, the price of the cheapest scandium is $2,000 per kilogram, which is forty times higher than the price specified in the contract. And in 1992, when this metal was exported, the price of scandium metal powder was $372,000 per kilogram. Hundreds of times higher. 7 kilograms of scandium were exported... So multiply! In general, these contracts involved millions, tens of millions of dollars in profit. Not only Putin, but also Sobchak was involved in this matter...

When Yegor Gaidar realized that something incredible was happening in St. Petersburg with this barter, he reacted. And he realized it because I notified Fyodor Shkrudnev - acting at that time.

Licenses for the export of raw materials were issued by our St. Petersburg committee for foreign economic relations, that is, by Putin. And goods with these licenses went abroad. But no food arrived.

presidential representative in St. Petersburg; The then chairman of the Leningrad City Council, Alexander Belyaev, helped me a lot in this. We sent all our materials to Gaidar.

And then Gaidar wrote a sharp paper in which it was said that only those authorized by the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations have the right to issue licenses for the export of raw materials abroad. In the Northwestern Federal District, this is Pakhomov. Pakhomov came to me and said: “Just look, Marina Evgenievna, what’s happening!” And at this moment Sobchak draws up a protocol “on cooperation between the mayor’s office of St. Petersburg and the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations of the Russian Federation” ( see photocopies of the first , second , third and fourth sheets - RS ).

Then Peter Aven, then the head of the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations, issues an order “On the status of the authorized representative of the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations of Russia for St. Petersburg . ” Pakhomov is removed. The Putin Committee for Foreign Economic Relations at the mayor's office is being made a committee of dual subordination and is given the right to sign licenses. Sobchak covered Putin with his chest. But there remains one more point. The licenses already issued by Putin for the export of raw materials have not been confirmed. And then Sobchak writes a very cunning letter to Gaidar : “We have been allocated quotas for such and such raw materials. Such and such licenses have already been issued for it. However, the shipment is delayed. If we do not act further now, then the city will be left without food, we will lose trust among the population. I propose the following: continue to issue licenses."

And Gaidar writes: I agree . To which journalist Vladimir Ivanidze (not me, but Ivanidze!) responds this way: either the signature on Gaidar’s document was forged (which I do not completely rule out; the numbers on the documents were corrected several times, especially on Avenov’s...), or Gaidar was playing a double game. For me this was absolute nonsense. On the one hand, Gaidar, as chairman of the government, imposes a categorical ban on the issuance of licenses by anyone other than those authorized by the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations, on the other hand, he agrees with this cunning, ambiguous letter from Sobchak.

In one of his last interviews, Sobchak says about me: “Because of Salye, because of all these delays, food did not arrive in the city.” Not because of me. The food did not arrive because there were no companies that were supposed to supply it.

- Who were the companies registered to?

- There are no famous people among them, except for one - Grigory Miroshnik. By that time, he had already served two terms in prison and headed the Intercomcenter company. He received a huge shipment - 150 thousand tons of diesel fuel. Not weak. And a contract was signed with him and a license was issued.

When our working group finished its work, a huge report was compiled. It was brought to the presidium meeting. The Presidium approved it, and we sent it to the prosecutor's office. In the report, I did not insist on Sobchak’s responsibility, but only on the head of Putin’s Foreign Economic Relations Committee. Otherwise, the presidium simply would not have approved the report. They wouldn’t go against Sobchak.

The prosecutor's office did not answer for a long time, then replied that it was calling some secretary of the Leningrad City Council, Golubev, in this case. What does this Golubev have to do with it? Unclear. Then I took this report to the head of the Control Department of the Presidential Administration, Yuri Boldyrev. I called him and we met immediately. He acted very quickly. Firstly, he wrote a letter to Aven right in front of me (dated March 31, 1992) :

"Dear Pyotr Olegovich! The Control Directorate of the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation received materials from deputies of the working group of the St. Petersburg City Council of People's Deputies, indicating the possible need to remove the Chairman of the Committee for External Relations of the St. Petersburg City Hall V.V. Putin from his position. In In connection with this, I ask you not to consider the issue of appointing V.V. Putin to any positions pending consideration of these materials by the Control Department."

After which Sobchak instantly appointed Putin as the representative of the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations for St. Petersburg, with double subordination. Sobchak said: “I will appoint him, unless he goes higher in Moscow.” Here you go. Putin was appointed, and Boldyrev was removed. And he didn't answer me. It's a pity. That's the whole story. The prosecutor's office remained uninvestigated the case. As you understand, the story with licenses, with food, with tens of millions of dollars that the people involved in this earned then (I don’t know who; the people who were involved in this), tied Sobchak and Putin very tightly. This can be seen in all documents. Sobchak knew about all the details of this case. He

Sobchak knew about all the details of this case. He "closed" Putin.

"closed" Putin.

And Gaidar’s letter, in which he agreed with Sobchak’s Jesuit formulations, closed everything. Putin was allowed to issue licenses and the licenses issued earlier were legalized. The registration of licenses itself is beyond any criticism - some have no dates, some have no seals or signatures. What was not there - a lot of violations.

Thus, Sobchak closes Putin. And from that moment on, they are tightly connected by these millions... And then there is this “Continent”...

- What kind of “Continent”?

- In May 1991, I was on a business trip to Berlin. I, the chairman of the food commission of the Leningrad City Council, and the deputy chairman of the food committee (i.e., the executive structure) Dobrovolsky (a decent person, very... He has been in Spain for a long time) went. We went for potatoes and meat, we had to conclude contracts. We were supposed to have a meeting with a certain Mrs. Rudolf. She was the head of the Norung company and a former Stasi employee.

We agree on a meeting, and she says that she cannot meet with us at this time, because she has negotiations for a very large amount and also with St. Petersburg people. We had a death grip on her. We told her: “food is us, no one else.” We find out that she enters into a contract for 90 million German marks for 60,000 tons of meat.

- With whom?

- We don’t know with whom. I call Sobchak and say that payments are made through Vnesheconombank (we found out this). Sobchak called and said that he had checked, and no amounts had been received by Vnesheconombank. And then we learn about the company "Continent" . The company "Continent" was once entrusted by the Prime Minister of the USSR Valentin Pavlov with the purchase of food and other goods for Leningrad. This meat came to Russia and went, bypassing Leningrad, to Moscow. And all this happened on the eve of the coup of 1991. Could it be that the putschists were stocking up on meat, so that as soon as they finished their business, they would throw the meat on the shelves? One way or another, you will agree that it is very strange that this same “Continent” continued to purchase food in 1992. I wrote a request to the chief state inspector of the Russian Federation, head of the Control Directorate of the Presidential Administration, Yuri Boldyrev. I did not receive an answer to this request - Boldyrev was quickly removed.

Time passed, and Sobchak, despite all his charm (his gift as an orator, his gift for liking, I must agree, is undeniable), was not popular in the city. And only in the very center and “the most intellectuals,” I would say, supported him. And in residential areas it lost its rating. And it’s not about the opponent... This story with his apartment, with the criminal case... One fine day, with the help of Putin, Sobchak flew on a plane to Finland, and from there to Paris.

Well, as soon as Boris Nikolaevich gave the reins of government to Vladimir Vladimirovich, Anatoly Alexandrovich decided that everything was in order now, he was not subject to prosecution and under the protection of Vladimir Vladimirovich... he could safely return to Russia. Which is what he did, and he was absolutely wrong. Things ended badly. I think it is unlikely that he died a natural death . Because all the circumstances of this death were very strange, and Lyudmila Borisovna, the day after his death, herself expressed such an assumption. True, a day later, everything that was needed was probably explained to her well, and she abandoned this version. Perhaps an exhumation would be necessary.

- Returning to the report of the working group on the activities of Vladimir Putin. It was made in 1992, but began to be widely cited only in 2000. What is the reason?

- Yes, indeed, it began to be widely discussed only after 8 years. Because before that, no one was interested in the report. In 1999–2000, I already lived in Moscow (worked for the Free Democratic Party of Russia - FDPR). And on December 30, NTV correspondent Evgeny Revenko came to my work and began asking questions about this report and about Putin, from which I understood that something was wrong. The media have not been interested in me for a long time.

It was December 30th. And on the 31st, Yeltsin announced his successor. Then I realized what was going on. And on NTV 2-3 phrases were heard from my long interview. The Enteveshnik kept trying to get me to say everything straight. But I understood that it was something serious, and I answered evasively. And then I became a star in the world press. During January, representatives of leading media from all over the world visited me. Who was there?

They'll kill me. Natasha is very afraid

Putin, in the book “In the first person. Conversations with Vladimir Putin” (the book was published in 2000 - RS ) wrote the following phrase (I almost quote): “Yes, the fact of the matter is that there were no licenses. Well, there were none.” (“ We did not have the right to issue licenses. That’s the whole point. Licenses were given by divisions of the Ministry of Foreign Economic Relations. This is a federal structure that had nothing to do with the city administration.” - RS ). And they are all in my folder...

They'll kill me. Natasha (sister - RS ) is very afraid.

- Were there any direct threats?

- No.

- Why did you move?

- I moved because of Yushenkov. We agreed on a meeting with Yushenkov, this was at the beginning of 2000. We, free democrats, wanted to unite with him. We have always had very good relations with Sergei Nikolaevich. And I saw in his office a man whom I never wanted to see, anywhere, under any circumstances. I won't tell you this name. And then I realized that it was better to leave. And Sergei Nikolaevich was soon killed. Since 2000, I have not given interviews or warned journalists: not a word about Putin. I moved immediately, and Natasha moved a few months later - I had to finish my business in Moscow.

- You didn’t want to go abroad?

- No. I am a man of my country. I am a cosmopolitan, of course, but I can only live in my own country... I am glad of my view of the lake much more than I would be glad of the chair in which Lyudmila Narusova sat in the film about Sobchak.

- The media circulated information about a telegram allegedly sent to you for the New Year 2001: “I wish you good health, as well as the opportunity to use it. V.V. Putin.” It was so?

- No. Nothing like this. Probably, if she had come to my official address in St. Petersburg, they would have informed me. We met with Putin personally two or three times. I remember two well. One time our entire working group was present, where Putin came with his piece of paper (a certificate of issuing quotas for the export of raw materials. - RS ), and the second time we were together with Yura Gladkov, my deputy. Yura has already died. When they tried to interview him in 2000, he categorically refused.

- Why?

- I was afraid. He explained it to me: “No, Marina Evgenievna, I can’t.”

- Why, according to your version, did Putin become the successor?

- Hard to explain. I only know that Sobchak and Yeltsin did not like each other...

The dominance of executive power was established precisely under Sobchak. After all, later the city council became smaller and met less often... And this St. Petersburg style undoubtedly influenced the current government. And besides, of all the democrats who were in St. Petersburg, except Chubais (you can kill me for saying this), no one got in except Chubais.

When our coordination council discussed whether or not to support Putin in the 2000 elections, it was Chubais’s vote in favor that decided everything. Gaidar, by the way, did not vote. I, Lev Ponomarev, Konstantin Titov lay down on the rails so that he would not be supported.

- Did other members of the coordination council know about your report on Putin?

- I didn’t specifically talk about this... But, for example, Novaya Gazeta had by that time published an article by Oleg Lurie about this.

And now, thanks to Chubais, there were enough votes “for Putin”. I then said: “Anatoly Borisovich, my limit of trust in you has been exhausted.” Now all that remains is to gloat: “I told you so.” I immediately realized that Putin is here to stay. They objected to me - “well, for two terms.” No, I told you, he’ll come up with something. Today Medvedev is not independent, and Putin, after Medvedev, will return back to the presidency.

- Is there any hope for uniting the opposition?

- I have no. In general, I think that Russia will simply fall apart.

- Then, in 1991-93, there was also such a threat.

- But then there were people who opposed it. And now he’s gone,” said Marina Salye .

Listen to the broadcast version of the interview with Marina Salye in Dmitry Volchek’s program “Results of the Week” on Saturday, March 6.

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Marina Salye was born in 1934 in Leningrad. In 1941-1942 was in besieged Leningrad. Geologist by profession, Doctor of Geological and Mineralogical Sciences. From 1957 to 1990 she worked at the Institute of Precambrian Geology and Geochronology of the USSR Academy of Sciences. Author of more than a hundred scientific papers on geology.

Since 1987, Marina Salye has been an activist and leader of democratic organizations and movements. She was the leader of the Leningrad Popular Front (1988 - 1990), leader of the Interregional Association of Democratic Organizations (1989 -1990). In 1990, she became one of the initiators of the creation and ideologist of the Free Democratic Party of Russia (FDPR), and actively participated in the Democratic Russia movement.

In 1990 - 1993, Marina Salye was elected as a deputy of the Leningrad City Council and became chairman of the food commission. At the same time, in 1990-1993 she was a people's deputy of Russia.

Marina Salye is the author of the books “Mafruption, Mafruption! Mafia and Corruption” (1994), “History of the Free Democrats of Russia” (2000) and others.